Overzealous flagging killing the spirit of Craigslist
"Just post it on Craigslist." It’s a phrase spoken millions of times a day by sellers looking to make a few bucks off of Craigslist.
Now some say overzealous flagging by users with personal agendas is killing the spirit of Craigslist and costing well meaning sellers a chance to earn money.
Craigslist is both big and small in many ways. Experts estimate there are 50 million new ads posted worldwide every month. One in five Americans use it, yet it’s run by a relatively small group of 30 in San Francisco. It would be virtually impossible for 30 people to monitor ever ad that is posted.
So, from its inception in 1996, founder Craig Newmark made it clear that the free classified ad service would be moderated and edited by its users instead of Craigslist staff through a practice called "flagging." On every ad, there is a box of links in the upper right hand corner of the webpage that give the reader the ability to flag the ad for removal.
Each user must agree to the terms and service of Craigslist. Within that agreement are some specific rules that outline the kind of ads that are not appropriate or prohibited such as scalping or the selling of pets.
But users like Pete Mitchell of Everett believe users are flagging ads for reasons that go well beyond the rules listed in the terms of service and Craigslist staff is letting them get away with it.
“I love playing guitar, I love making music,” says Mitchell. Pete Mitchell is not his real name but his Craigslist handle. He fears his personal affairs would be compromised by “flagging fanatics” if his real name was used because of the “vicious and vindictive” nature of some flaggers.
“They flag every post, it’s as simple as that,” says Mitchell, who uses Craigslist to sell his homemade guitars. “You make something, you sell it. That’s why Craigslist is here.”
But some sellers like Mitchell are in a running battle with presumably, other users who keep flagging his ads. Only the Craigslist staff knows how many flags it takes to remove an ad --it’s been a closely held secret and never revealed publicly.
“I’ve read all the rules, I follow the rules and I still get flagged so why have rules,” says a frustrated Mitchell.
The most important rule for any seller on Craigslist to remember is a real show-stopper: Any user can flag any ad for any reason. If a user thinks a price is too high, or doesn’t like the description or there’s a misspelling – it doesn’t matter why -- they can flag the ad. Even if the ad is perfect in every way, it can still be flagged and removed automatically by Craigslist computers once the unknown flagging threshold has been reached.
“If you don’t like a post, move onto the next one,” says Mitchell, who believes he might be the flagging target of a competitor.
Wendy Simonsen had her ad flagged for removal as well. She and her husband run a web-based home business called PersonalizedFree.com.
“We have over 1,400 different Christmas ornaments that we personalize with whatever the customers want,” says Simonsen.
She needed a graphic artist background to do some simple doctoring in Photoshop of pictures of her ornaments to make them suitable for posting on her website. Craigslist charges between $25 to $75 for job wanted ads, but since Simonsen’s job was for part-time, non-regular work, she placed her ad appropriately in the creative gigs section of Craigslist.
She pays $1 a photo and it takes about five minutes to doctor each photo. That’s $12 an hour -- more if you worker faster -- and you can work at home, when you want. After the ad had been posted for an hour, it got flagged and removed.
“I have no idea why it got flagged. I’m offering work ” says Simonsen. “There’s nothing controversial about it. This is a great job for moms with kids in school. There’s no reason why it should have been flagged.”
Flaggers and not required to give seller a reason why they flagged their ad. Sellers like Pete and Wendy are often left in the dark about what they need to change to avoid future flagging.
Mitchell says he’s sent Craigslist hundreds of emails asking for an explanation on why his ads keep getting flagged. “They don’t answer emails,” says Mitchell.
The Problem Solvers sent several emails and social media postings to Craigslist public relations staff, CEO Jim Buckmaster and founder Craig Newmark (who is no longer part of the day-to-day operations of Craigslist) asking for clarification on Craigslist policies. There was no response.
So frustrated sellers are left to post their requests for advice to the Flagging Forum on Craigslist, which is manned not by Craigslist staffers, but by fellow users.
“The flagging forum can be brutal,” says The Fixxer, a regular contributor to the flagging forum. He’s referring to the rude and demeaning behavior shown by some of the “so-called helpers” toward people angry about their ads being flagged. The Fixxer did not want us to use his real name for the same reasons as Pete Mitchell.
“People will start messing with you cause they feel you are responsible for the flagged ad,” says The Fixxer. “They will go after people in a stalker kind of way and I don’t want to be a part of that."
The Fixxer is known as a peanut – that’s a Craigslist-ism for helper. He’s also the creator of a website called The Peanut Blogs that helps frustrated sellers avoid flagging.
“Most people have not read the terms of use, otherwise they would know why their ads were flagged,” says The Fixxer.
“Ad-naseum” is another Craigslist-ism for people who post too often. The Fixxer says ad-naseum could lead to automatic flagging by Craigslist computers. He says Community Pets followed by Rants and Raves and the Personals section are the hotbeds for vicious flagging.
“People flag for emotional reasons. They flag for prices. It’s a known fact. They shouldn’t but they do,” says Fixxer.
Still, he says the self-policing of Craigslist by its users is working because what’s acceptable for one community of users may not be acceptable for another.
“It’s been set up intentionally so people can decide what ads they don’t want to see,” says The Fixxer. “If you are dissatisfied for any reason, quit using it.”
Simonsen feels Craigslist should have the final say-so about ad removal and should flag the flaggers who flag too much. “I feel these people are working against the community by flagging ads like mine,” she said.
But what keeps Craigslist users coming back is the price. It’s free for the majority of sellers. So keep this in mind, you get what you paid for.
“I think it’s great, when it works,” says Simonsen.
Now some say overzealous flagging by users with personal agendas is killing the spirit of Craigslist and costing well meaning sellers a chance to earn money.
Craigslist is both big and small in many ways. Experts estimate there are 50 million new ads posted worldwide every month. One in five Americans use it, yet it’s run by a relatively small group of 30 in San Francisco. It would be virtually impossible for 30 people to monitor ever ad that is posted.
So, from its inception in 1996, founder Craig Newmark made it clear that the free classified ad service would be moderated and edited by its users instead of Craigslist staff through a practice called "flagging." On every ad, there is a box of links in the upper right hand corner of the webpage that give the reader the ability to flag the ad for removal.
Each user must agree to the terms and service of Craigslist. Within that agreement are some specific rules that outline the kind of ads that are not appropriate or prohibited such as scalping or the selling of pets.
But users like Pete Mitchell of Everett believe users are flagging ads for reasons that go well beyond the rules listed in the terms of service and Craigslist staff is letting them get away with it.
“I love playing guitar, I love making music,” says Mitchell. Pete Mitchell is not his real name but his Craigslist handle. He fears his personal affairs would be compromised by “flagging fanatics” if his real name was used because of the “vicious and vindictive” nature of some flaggers.
“They flag every post, it’s as simple as that,” says Mitchell, who uses Craigslist to sell his homemade guitars. “You make something, you sell it. That’s why Craigslist is here.”
But some sellers like Mitchell are in a running battle with presumably, other users who keep flagging his ads. Only the Craigslist staff knows how many flags it takes to remove an ad --it’s been a closely held secret and never revealed publicly.
“I’ve read all the rules, I follow the rules and I still get flagged so why have rules,” says a frustrated Mitchell.
The most important rule for any seller on Craigslist to remember is a real show-stopper: Any user can flag any ad for any reason. If a user thinks a price is too high, or doesn’t like the description or there’s a misspelling – it doesn’t matter why -- they can flag the ad. Even if the ad is perfect in every way, it can still be flagged and removed automatically by Craigslist computers once the unknown flagging threshold has been reached.
“If you don’t like a post, move onto the next one,” says Mitchell, who believes he might be the flagging target of a competitor.
Wendy Simonsen had her ad flagged for removal as well. She and her husband run a web-based home business called PersonalizedFree.com.
“We have over 1,400 different Christmas ornaments that we personalize with whatever the customers want,” says Simonsen.
She needed a graphic artist background to do some simple doctoring in Photoshop of pictures of her ornaments to make them suitable for posting on her website. Craigslist charges between $25 to $75 for job wanted ads, but since Simonsen’s job was for part-time, non-regular work, she placed her ad appropriately in the creative gigs section of Craigslist.
She pays $1 a photo and it takes about five minutes to doctor each photo. That’s $12 an hour -- more if you worker faster -- and you can work at home, when you want. After the ad had been posted for an hour, it got flagged and removed.
“I have no idea why it got flagged. I’m offering work ” says Simonsen. “There’s nothing controversial about it. This is a great job for moms with kids in school. There’s no reason why it should have been flagged.”
Flaggers and not required to give seller a reason why they flagged their ad. Sellers like Pete and Wendy are often left in the dark about what they need to change to avoid future flagging.
Mitchell says he’s sent Craigslist hundreds of emails asking for an explanation on why his ads keep getting flagged. “They don’t answer emails,” says Mitchell.
The Problem Solvers sent several emails and social media postings to Craigslist public relations staff, CEO Jim Buckmaster and founder Craig Newmark (who is no longer part of the day-to-day operations of Craigslist) asking for clarification on Craigslist policies. There was no response.
So frustrated sellers are left to post their requests for advice to the Flagging Forum on Craigslist, which is manned not by Craigslist staffers, but by fellow users.
“The flagging forum can be brutal,” says The Fixxer, a regular contributor to the flagging forum. He’s referring to the rude and demeaning behavior shown by some of the “so-called helpers” toward people angry about their ads being flagged. The Fixxer did not want us to use his real name for the same reasons as Pete Mitchell.
“People will start messing with you cause they feel you are responsible for the flagged ad,” says The Fixxer. “They will go after people in a stalker kind of way and I don’t want to be a part of that."
The Fixxer is known as a peanut – that’s a Craigslist-ism for helper. He’s also the creator of a website called The Peanut Blogs that helps frustrated sellers avoid flagging.
“Most people have not read the terms of use, otherwise they would know why their ads were flagged,” says The Fixxer.
“Ad-naseum” is another Craigslist-ism for people who post too often. The Fixxer says ad-naseum could lead to automatic flagging by Craigslist computers. He says Community Pets followed by Rants and Raves and the Personals section are the hotbeds for vicious flagging.
“People flag for emotional reasons. They flag for prices. It’s a known fact. They shouldn’t but they do,” says Fixxer.
Still, he says the self-policing of Craigslist by its users is working because what’s acceptable for one community of users may not be acceptable for another.
“It’s been set up intentionally so people can decide what ads they don’t want to see,” says The Fixxer. “If you are dissatisfied for any reason, quit using it.”
Simonsen feels Craigslist should have the final say-so about ad removal and should flag the flaggers who flag too much. “I feel these people are working against the community by flagging ads like mine,” she said.
But what keeps Craigslist users coming back is the price. It’s free for the majority of sellers. So keep this in mind, you get what you paid for.
“I think it’s great, when it works,” says Simonsen.
Nice piece! Did simonsen and Pete Mitchell use the flag help forum?
ReplyDeleteYou should've mentioned that CL would quickly become unusable without the flagging system and that less than 2% of flagged ads fall outside the TOU.
Dashy, Fixxer here, I interviewed for about 4 hours, wasn't much I didn't tell KOMO. They seemed to have their own ideas about craigslist.
ReplyDeleteGuitar guy belongs in services. That is why he is being flagged. I didn't get enough info on the photo editing woman to know for sure, but there was the "great job for moms with kids in school" thing, and I guessed over-posting the same bad ad. Her ad I am unsure of being there is not enough information about her ad to know for sure.
TheFixxer
lol... really? REALLY REALLY REALLY?
ReplyDeleteSoGrayHandleForThis
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY?
Somewhat of a mis-quote here as ad nauseam does not trigger automatic flagging. LOL I also didn't use the word "vicious".
ReplyDelete"“Ad-naseum” is another Craigslist-ism for people who post too often. The Fixxer says ad-naseum could lead to automatic flagging by Craigslist computers. He says Community Pets followed by Rants and Raves and the Personals section are the hotbeds for vicious flagging."
~TheFixxer
"I interviewed for about 4 hours. They seemed to have their own ideas about craigslist", That is typical of TV news because they work on fast deadlines. As a result they care more about the parts of a story that get people to tune in and post comments on their website than they do about the whole story.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the people in the story who say that Craigslist flagging is a huge problem. Even after how you explained the process to me last night I still don't think anyone should have to worry about wasting their time while posting on Craigslist and they wouldn't have to if it were not for the flagging system. I oppose flagging as a concept entirely, but I think it is excessive on Craigslist. Just because users don't like something should not be grounds for removal.
Even though you don't have a problem with the flagging system I know one thing that both of us can agree on. If people started posted pets for sale in the shopping section of No Limit List they wouldn't get flagged on Criagslist.
Yo NoLimit, did it ever occur to you that pet sales are prohibited on CL because they're illegal or restricted in *many* states? (including California where CL is headquartered)
ReplyDeleteThat explains most of the prohibited items list on craigslist--because most of them are illegal to begin with!
Also, reputable breeders don't post on CL anyway--they already have waiting lists 2-3 litters long!