Sunday, February 27, 2011

A new look for The Peanut Blogs.

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Thanks,

   TheFixxer

Even more news on the craigslist vs oodle feud.

Craigslist is 'cesspool of crime,' says rival

Written by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz @ 26 Feb 2011 17:26 User comments (7)

Oodle, the company behind the popular Facebook

app Marketplace has released a study this week, one that shows Craigslist is really a "a cesspool of crime."

The report links Craigslist to 330 crimes and 12 deaths in the U.S. in 2010, and a total of 20 deaths since the classified's launch in 1995.

After Oodle released the study, Craigslist CEO went ballistic on the report, slamming it, and with good reason.

The study has the incredibly sensationalist title "Crime and Craigslist: A sad tale of murders and more" and starts like this:

"Craigslist: A site of murder and mayhem":

Sadly, Craigslist has become a cesspool of crime. Murders. Rapes. Robberies. Hitman-for-hire. Assault. Fraud. Rental rip-offs. Unfortunately, these are everyday occurrences involving people who use Craigslist to buy or sell, or for worse. And the old rules — "meet in public;" "always tell someone where you’re going;" "know who you’re dealing with" — often don’t work on Craigslist.

Oodle says it is different from Craigslist due to accountability. All transactions are tied to a user's Facebook account, whereas on Craigslist all accounts and emails are anonymous. The Marketplace app has moved to 14 million unique users.

Adds Oodle CEO Craig Donato:

We were doing some focus groups, how they used online classifieds and it was pretty clear that interactions that began anonymously led to face-to-face encounters, and flaky behavior. What really struck us in all the focus groups was that everyone cited a close call, or where they felt really scared. We just asked [AIM, the research group] to look at problems and crimes associated with online classifieds, and it quickly zoned in on Craigslist, which has the lion's share.

In the report, AIM noted the following, which then caused Buckmaster's largest outburst:

To be absolutely fair, Craigslist as an entity can't be blamed for the things that happen among its users. It's merely a facilitator of commerce, after all. And we understand thousands or even tens of thousands of transactions happen safely between Craigslist aficionados. Long before Craigslist, even, robberies were linked to newspaper classifieds from time to time. But that's no longer an excuse that Craigslist can hide behind.

Buckmaster, defending his company snapped back:

Classified listings scraper/aggregator and CL wannabe Oodle has paid AIM Group to falsely portray Craigslist as fraught with criminal activity. If you strip away the false (and defamatory) paid-for editorial however, and look at the numbers AIM uses, a very different story emerges.

Sounds scary until you compare that number to the 570 million classified ads posted by 100 million or more U.S. Craigslist users during that same time span, generating literally BILLIONS of human interactions, many involving face-to-face meetings between users who do not know one another. AIM Group facetiously writes 'we understand thousands or even tens of thousands of transactions happen safely between Craigslist aficionados.'
THOUSANDS??? Shame on you AIM Group (and Oodle). You know better. Try HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS or BILLIONS of safe transactions.

FileSoup torrent admins walk

From the craigslist blog, craigslist speaks about the oodle vs craigslist feud.

CL-wannabe-sponsored “research” backfires

Site-scraper seeks to undermine Internet safety by instructing users to ignore safety guidelines

Classified listings scraper/aggregator and CL wannabe Oodle has paid AIM Group to falsely portray craigslist as fraught with criminal activity.

If you strip away the false (and defamatory) paid-for editorial however, and look at the numbers AIM uses, a very different story emerges.

AIM group “documents” 330 crimes that it says occurred in connection with use of CL in the US over a 12 month period. Sounds scary until you compare that number to the 570 million classified ads posted by 100 million or more US craigslist users during that same time span, generating literally BILLIONS of human interactions, many involving face-to-face meetings between users who do not know one another.

AIM Group facetiously writes “we understand thousands or even tens of thousands of transactions happen safely between Craigslist aficionados.”

THOUSANDS??? Shame on you AIM Group (and Oodle). You know better. Try hundreds of millions or billions of safe transactions. How does the self-proclaimed “bible of the classifieds industry” arrive at a range that underestimates the transaction volume of CL by 5 or more orders of magnitude (and declines to correct it) ? Well, when you’re paid to reach false conclusions about crime incidence, you’ve got little choice. If you accurately describe the transaction volume, you then have to admit that the incidence of crime is extremely low, and that’s not what those sponsor dollars were about. As Techdirt has noted, this “research” calls into question AIM Group’s entire value proposition:

As for the actual “research,” it seems laughable, at best, and should immediately raise questions about any AIM Group research. The “research” basically scoured news reports and found a grand total of 330 “crimes” in the past year that have some sort of loose connection to Craigslist. I have a hard time seeing how that makes it a “cesspool” of crime. That’s a very small number, especially considering the hundreds of millions of posts and transactions that take place via Craigslist.

James Temple at the SF Chronicle is reporting that, in terms of crime rate, or incidence of crime, craigslist is roughly 11,000 times safer than the city of Oakland. And as he has now updated, there is no reason to pick on his hometown of Oakland, the 11,000x incidence ratio would likely apply to any major city in the US. The point he is making is not the dangerousness of any given city, but rather the exceptional safety of craigslist.

Crime is exceedingly rare on craigslist in part because criminals know that the electronic trail they leave there helps ensure their capture, and CL is unusually helpful and cooperative with law enforcement. The risk is not zero of course, and common sense precautions are in order when using craigslist, just as you would do at other venues or offline (where risks are arguably higher)

Since few have heard of it, its worth mentioning that Oodle is a classified ad scraper or aggregator, meaning it acquires its listings by scraping them or aggregating them from other sites. In fact we had to send them a cease-and-desist notice when they started scraping listings from craigslist in 2005.

AIM omits to mention craigslist is likely also safer than Oodle in terms of crime rate, or incidence of crime, when you compare the usage between the two sites. Spot checking of categories such as furniture, roommates, collectibles, baby/kid stuff, and bicycles for January showed craigslist having roughly 1000x times Oodle’s listings (and CL listings are posted by its users, not scraped from other sites). Some Oodle categories have more listings, but those are dominated by data feeds from a few large commercial entities.

Compete.com web traffic stats show CL with 550x Oodle’s page views.

Such that if so much as ONE (1) crime was connected with an Oodle listing over the past 12 months, the crime rate for Oodle would exceed by almost two times the crime rate that AIM Group claims for CL.

It’s kind of like comparing Pine Bluff Arkansas (pop 100,000) to the state of California (population 30 million) — yeah, California has far more TOTAL crime, but the INCIDENCE of crime (crimes per 100,000 people) is actually lower in California (522) than in Pine Bluff (946).

But of course, you don’t include such findings or perspective when your “research” is being bought and paid for by a client looking to tar an industry leader whose position it covets and envies.

Not content with defaming craigslist, AIM/Oodle recklessly misadvises that “the old rules — “meet in public;” “always tell someone where you’re going;” “know who you’re dealing with” — often don’t work on Craigslist.” This wildly false and irresponsible guidance is reinforced in a related press release, which says that “the old rules of ‘meeting in public’ and ‘knowing whom you’re dealing with’ no longer apply.”

Kind of like advising motorists that, because accidents are happening despite precautions, that the old rules about “observing speed limits” and “wearing your seat belt” and “don’t drink and drive” no longer apply.

This entry was posted on Thursday, February 24th, 2011 at 1:16 pm and is filed underHarrassment, Law Enforcement, Media, Metrics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

For the entire content with all the responses go to:http://blog.craigslist.org/2011/02/more-pay-to-play-research-from-aim/

Attorneys general target Backpage online classifieds over adult services.

Attorneys general target Backpage online classifieds

By: Geoff Duncan •
September 23, 2010
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Now that Craigslist has removed its adult services listings, 21 state attorneys general are targeting online classified site Backpage.com.

Some 21 state attorneys general have asked online classifieds service Backpage.com to remove adult services listings from its site, arguing the service is often used to promote prostitution and human trafficking—including trafficking in children. However, at least for the moment, Backpage.com is refusing to comply with the request, saying it works with law enforcement to prosecute anyone using the site illegally.

The argument is the same that was applied to Craigslist’s “adult services” section, which the company voluntarily removed from its site earlier this month owing to mounting political pressure. In taking down the section, Craigslist warned that law enforcement was losing a significant ally in its efforts to curb human trafficking and online prostitution, and that ad-placers would scatter to far less-cooperative online sites.

“Adult services sections are little more than online brothels, enabling human trafficking and sexual exploitation of women and children,” wrote Connecticut’s attorney general Richard Blumenthal. “Because backpage cannot properly police adult services, the section should be shut down immediately. Backpage has a moral—if not legal—obligation to purge ads that promote trafficking and sexual abuse of women and children.”

Backpage, however, shows no willingness to accede, saying in its blog that it “respectfully declines” the request, and says it works in good faith with law enforcement. “Backpage.com is disappointed that the AGs have determined to shift blame from criminal predators to a legal business operator in an apparent attempt to capitalize on political opportunity during the election season.”

Blumenthal characterizes removing adult services listings as “common-sense steps toward protecting women and children.”

The attorneys general don’t have any more authority to haul Backpage.com to court than they did with Craigslist: although it posting promoting illegal activities are illegal, federal law protects classified ads service from prosecution based on the postings of their users.

State attorneys general signing the letter were from the states of Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Virginia.

More on the oodle vs craigslist feud. Craigslist talks back.

Craigslist to Oodle: Who are you calling a ‘cesspool of crime’?

By: Andrew Couts •
February 26, 2011
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A new study by online classifieds site Oodle.com and research firm AIM Group finds that Craigslist is a "cesspool of crime." Unfortunately for them, that's a SLIGHT exaggeration.

The gritty world of online classified ads took a turn for the worst this week after Craigslist.org rival Oodle.com released a study, in conjunction with research firm AIM Group, that labels Craigslist a “cesspool of crime.”

With the aid of an infographic entitled “Mayhem on Craigslist,” Oodle runs through the crime figures that are meant to paint a frightening picture of Craigslist: 330 crimes related to Craigslist in the last year alone; 43 violent crimes; 74 robberies; 31 assaults; 12 murders. The list goes on.

Oodle claims its service is safer because it requires users sign in with their Facebook accounts in order to use the site.

In a write-up about the report, AIM Group’s Peter Zollman doesn’t stop at mere figures. Instead, he takes off the gloves, and starts swinging, calling Craigslist a “cesspool of crime,” and saying that the nightmarish cornucopia of Craislist-related incidents listed above are “everyday occurrences.” He warns Craigslist users that “the old rules of ‘meeting in public’ and ‘knowing whom you’re dealing with’ no longer apply,” and brands Craigslist “almost synonymous with crime.”

Fighting words for sure. Problem is, claims that Craigslist — whose now-defunked “adult services” sectionsallegedly became a veritable outlet mall of online prostitution — is rampant with crime just aren’t true.

As San Francisco Gate Chronicle tech writer James Temple points out, Craigslist is actually “11,000 times safer than Oakland, California” — a city known as an actual “cesspool of crime.”

“Craigslist has nearly 53 million unique visitors per month, according to comScore Inc,” writes Temple. “That means that 330 crimes breaks down to an effective rate of 0.000006 per visitor.” Not exactly a horrifying statistic.

Even with members of the media defending Craigslist, the site’s leadership decided to stand up and defend itself. From Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster via the Craigslist blog:

Compete.com web traffic stats show CL with 550x Oodle’s page views. Such that if so much as ONE (1) crime was connected with an Oodle listing over the past 12 months, the crime rate for Oodle would exceed by almost two times the crime rate that AIM Group claims for CL.

Hopefully, Oodle has learned a valuable lesson here: If you’re going to resort to cheap shots and dirty tactics to get a leg up on your competition, at least do it without causing more damage to yourself.

What they perhaps don’t realize is that the Facebook Oodle relies upon for its cleansing qualities is becoming the next promised land for prostitutes. Funny, huh?

Saturday, February 26, 2011

Oodle calls Craigslist Cesspool of Crime. Looks like it's on between oddle and craigslist.

Oodle calls Craigslist Cesspool of Crime

February 27th, 2011
By Kris Ashton

A recent independent and possibly not completely unbiased study shows that Craigslist can be harmful to your health. Oodle, a rival classified ads site hired the AIM Group, a research firm for the industry, to go over reports about Craigslist and pinpoint when the site was connected to criminal activity in the press.

This past week Oodle released those finding, calling Craigslist “a cesspool of crime”. The study showed that Craigslist was linked to 330 crimes that included 12 murders and 105 robberies or assaults over a one year period.

Many around the net criticized Oodle for its seemingly underhanded tactics but Craig Donato, CEO of Oodle defended his company’s actions saying the findings were not meant to be scientific but just a look at the news reports covering Craigslist’s connection to crime.

Craigslist countered the report on their blog when Jim Buckmaster, CEO of Craigslist, said that the classified listings scraper/aggregator and CL wannabe Oodle has paid AIM Group to falsely portray craigslist as fraught with criminal activity.

The post went on to say that Craigslist had 550 times the amount of page views and 1000 the number of listings that Oodle had and that if Oodle had just one crime connected with it in a 12 month period, Oodle’s crime rate would exceed that of Craigslist by almost two times.

Donato said they had debated on releasing the report but decided that it was the right thing to do, informing the public about the safety issues.

But wait, there’s a back story here and a possible motive for revenge by Oodle. As stated by Buckmaster, Oodle is a classified ad scraper or aggregator, collecting listings from a number of other sites and displaying them in one central location. In 2005 Craigslist sent Oodle a cease-and-desist notice, demanding that they stop scraping Craiglist ads.

In an interview with Tom Foremski from Silicon Valley Watcher.com Buckmaster said that Oodle’s aggressive scraping was putting a strain on their infrastructure and causing problems for users of the site while the benefits from such sites as Oodle amounted to about 0.5 percent and slowed down performance.

Last fall Craigslist shut down its adult-services sections after pressure from law enforcement officials and anti-sex-trafficking groups complaining that the ads promoted prostitution and sex slavery involving underage girls.

The AIM Group counted 70,973 listings for prostitutes on Craigslist last August alone and reported that the site gave up $3.7 million a month in prostitution advertising when it shut down those sections.

A number of murders have been linked to CraigsList ads where killers have lured their victims through Craigslist. Some of these have been considered to be loose connections at best though. While many of the numbers given by the research group may be true, it’s also obvious that Oodle had less than altruistic intentions in mind when they paid AIM to do the research.

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